För er som tror 250 är dött

oFFkeFF

Slipar röven
Gick med
6 Mar 2003
Ort
Solna
Hoj
yamaha xt660r
http://www.speedtv.com/articles/moto/motogp/9921/

This crowd knows their MotoGP racing, and follows the \"lower\' GP2 class as well. (Photo: Honda Pro Use Images)
Can you name a half dozen current 250 GP riders? If you are Spanish or Italian you probably can name a lot more than that, but my guess is that the same American who knows pretty much who rides what in MotoGP and in the AMA Championship, may even have a little trouble remembering that Manuel Poggiali from San Marino won the title last year and that even those of you who know 250 well enough to name the team Alex Debon and Eric Bataille ride for (Würth Honda BQR) will admit that the class is in the doldrums. You may even be aware that most insiders believe it will be replaced soon...or at least they did believe that until very recently.

Once the FIM Roadracing World Championship Grand Prix format consisted of six classes for solo machines and one (and briefly two) classes for sidecars. Some riders actually began on 50cc singles and worked their way up through 125, 250 and 350 before moving into the 500 cc class, and there were some years back during the MV Agusta reign in 500 when, due to the level of riders and factory involvement, the 250 class was more prestigious than the big half liter category. The return of Yamaha and Suzuki to 500 cc racing in the early seventies followed by Honda in 1979 more than compensated for the withdrawal of MV Agusta after their defeat at the hands of Yamaha and Agostini in 1975 (although MV did score a pair of sayonara wins in 1976 with Agostini, one in 350 and one in 500).

With the consolidation of the 500 class as the “King Class,” as it is known in Latin countries, one by one the traditional “support” classes began to lose prestige and some were discontinued. The 350 class was axed at the end of the 1982 season and the 50cc class morphed into the 80cc class in 1984 before being dropped altogether at the end of 1989. Sidecar racing has managed to survive, though it is something of a pariah, clinging to a slot as a support class at World Superbike events, and its dwindling fan base resides largely in the United Kingdom, Germany, Austria and Holland.

With the change from 500cc two strokes to 990cc four strokes, the modular universe of GP racing, based upon single-cylinder 125's, 250 twins, and four-cylinder 500's, began to unravel. Although worried 250 team owners were reassured in 2000 that the quarter-liter class would continue through 2009, Dorna and the manufacturers were openly discussing a mid-size four stroke class.

Things went beyond the rumor stage midway through last summer when executives from both Dorna and IRTA told any journalists who could pull themselves away from the already raging Rossi to Ducati-Rossi to Formula 1-Rossi to Yamaha melodrama, that the 250 class was dead as a doornail, due to be replaced by a shiny, new four-stroke class. Mock-ups of hypothetical 600cc racers powered by modified Supersport engines appeared on the covers of Spanish and Italian magazines.

But suddenly, little over a month ago, although largely unnoticed in the specialist press, the 250 class, already discontinued in the USA, Great Britain, Spain and many other major motorcycle racing nations, unexpectedly got a new lease on life from the very organization that reportedly had been formulating a mid-range (500-600cc) four stroke replacement class and had even discussed a mixed 250cc two stroke-600cc four stroke transitional period. Caught off balance by this MSMA mood swing were Dorna Sports, the rights holders for Grand Prix road racing, and IRTA (International Racing Team Association). Many IRTA 250 teams were already expecting to change to four stroke bikes as early as 2006.

The MSMA (Manufacturers of Sports Motorcycles Association) announced at the recent MSMA-Dorna-IRTA meeting in Seville, Spain, that they wanted to continue with the same conventional 250 class for the next few years. The idea put forward was to leave the class basically unchanged until 2009. Dorna CEO, Carmelo Ezpeleta, was reportedly angry at the reversal at the time, but has been reserved and uncritical in his comments to the press. That doesn’t mean he is pleased with having to continue with the present regulations after having told journalists this summer that it seemed that 500-600cc four strokes were the right way to go as a replacement for the 250 class.

Signals coming from the Japanese manufacturers indicated that their clear preference was for four strokes, but it is a mistake often made to confuse what the Japanese manufactures want with what the engineers and race department officials who compose the MSMA want. In some ways the biggest problem that the MSMA have is that Aprilia are members and are determined to continue racing 250 two stroke twins as a profit center. A lot of horse-trading goes on inside the MSMA and I believe the current stay of execution for the 250 class is the result of compromises between Japanese manufacturers and Aprilia over matters I will try an explain further on. However, any attempts to build a class for production-based four strokes in prototype frames could run afoul with the FIM which forcefully demonstrated last year in the WCM case its determination to differentiate between a true prototype and a “hot rod” Superbike. In the case of a four-stroke entry in a new 250-600 class, the FIM would not have accepted modified Supersport engines. Under FIM rules a prototype must have original crankcases, cylinders and cylinder heads. Modifications to moving parts inside a production-derived engine do not a prototype make.

Presently Aprilia dominates the 250 class, rather half-heartedly challenged by Honda, with Yamaha maintaining a secondary presence, but with plans to support former All Japan 250 Champion Taro Sekiguchi and the diminutive 125 veteran, Max Sabbatini on “works” (or workish) 250 Yamahas in 2004. Prior to last season Aprilia president Ivano Beggio threatened block the MSMA’s attempt to roll back until 2005 the change from 24 to 22 liter tanks, originally planned for 2004. Beggio argued plausibly that Aprilia had built their three cylinder RS “Cube” under rules that would have reduced fuel loads to 22 liters this year and that he would not accept the delay in the implementation of the rules. The others wanted to continue this year with the bigger tanks and they got their way. It now looks like Aprilia traded its opposition to a delay in the implementation of the 22 liter fuel limit in exchange for prolongation of the 250 class. The 250 class is a cash cow for cash-strapped Aprilia, and they need their big and little 250 clients to subsidize their run-away MotoGP budget.

The word out of Seville was that the 250 class would continue as such “through 2009,” but insiders say that this still could change any day. Dorna, annoyed that only two manufacturers were running works teams in 250, demanded that at least three factories needed to enter the fray in 250. Yamaha, then, became the vital third factory. Derbi, meanwhile, are planning to join. If they do, bringing a major sponsor (Caja Madrid), the 250 class just might survive for another half dozen years.

A stay of execution, but not a pardon

Spanish and Italian journalists, privy to inside information, still believe that the classic class will be phased out before 2009 and that there will be a brief, hybrid two stroke-four stroke transition period (like the one that still allows 500cc two strokes in the MotoGP class).

Carmelo Ezpeleta, was quoted at the time as saying last July, “This is really a matter for the manufacturers to decide. If the MSMA want a four stroke class to replace 250, we will agree to their requests.” But, in fact, the MSMA do not have the authority to make regulations; only to propose them to Dorna and the FIM. Only the FIM have the final word over their acceptance or rejection and clearly the international federation is not going to approve a “hot rod Supersport” class that would constitute a potentially fatal blow to the precarious health of the World Superbike-Supersport paddock. The move from 500 cc two strokes to 990 cc four stroke prototypes has already harmed the World Superbike Championship, but to even suggest a possible 600 cc four stroke class in GP racing threatens stability in the still vibrant World Supersport Championship.

In part, at least, the prolongation of the 250 class may be due to the determination of the FIM to prevent encroachment by Grand Prix racing into the area of production-based racing, as we will see in part two of this article.
 

Nyteknik

Bannad
Gick med
6 Mar 2003
Ort
Bördig från Pålsboda
Hoj
Skeppshult damcykel
Jag läste om en ny Aprilia 250 som skulle ersätta nuvarande RS 250 och vara betydligt mer lik en produkionsracer. Någon som vet mer om detta?
 

Torkel

Tvåtakt, dubbelt så bra!
Gick med
31 Mar 2003
Ort
Värmdö
Hoj
2006 BMW R1200GS, 1990 Suzuki RM250

Axxexs

Ordinary man doing extraordinary things
Gick med
11 Dec 2003
Ort
Verkstan
Hoj
Technical Sports Racing AC28-M Prototype powered by Honda Racing Corporation
Stackars Valmers som satsat alla sina pengar å som skulle käka upp sin 4-taktare (eller nått) på att 2-taktarna skulle va borta 2006!! :arsele

Jaja.. minst till 2009 och Yamaha kommer in som fabriksteam i VM med Honda å Aprilia! Derbi på g in till 250 oxå...
 

Torkel

Tvåtakt, dubbelt så bra!
Gick med
31 Mar 2003
Ort
Värmdö
Hoj
2006 BMW R1200GS, 1990 Suzuki RM250
Nyteknik skrev:

Jag har då inte hört om något annat, se http://www.aprilia.com/portale/eng/mag_articolo.phtml?id=397


Also this year, Aprilia protagonist at the traditional kermesse in Bologna! And, for the 28th edition, Aprilia wants to show off its sporty gifts, choosing the Motor Show as an ideal window to present the racing versions of the world’s top three supersport motorcycles, the RSV 1000, RS 250 and RS 125.
We wait for you, to know together our new jewels! Appointment , where you’ll find also the whole Aprilia original merchandising!
Outside, in the race area, pay attention to the revolutionary SXV 4.5, the bike that Aprilia will be entering in the World Supermotard Championships next season and that aking part in the Superbikers International race on Monday 8th, ridden by Manuel Poggiali and Alex De Angelis.

With the models presented at the Motor Show, Aprilia reinforces its sensibilty towards the growing demand from motorcycle enthusiasts all over the world for dedicated race track machines for use in competition and practice. These bikes feature aviation fibre fairings, unrestricted exhausts, and come stripped of all unnecessary clutter like lights and horns. A “racing” colour scheme and graphics and a highly competitive price tag are common to all three models.

The RSV 1000 R Factory ‘Pista’ is equipped with 102 dB Aprilia Racing Titanium exhausts capable of giving the already high performance RSV yet another 10 HP in the mid-range and an extra 4 HP at maximum engine speed. An 8 kg weight reduction is the first of a series of benefits introduced on this bike to make track riding even more rewarding.

The RS 250 ‘Pista’ features lightweight Aprilia exhausts and Kevlar carbon silencers in homage to the RSW 250 that has dominated the World championships for so many years. Aprilia is delighted to dedicate this bike to Europe’s many fans of supersport 2-stroke racers and to the unbeatable thrills that these machines can deliver on any track.

The RS 125 ‘Pista’ is the perfect machine for all young riders seeking to make a name for themselves in the world of motorcycle racing. The undisputed queen of the European 125 Championship comes fitted with a specially made exhaust with external welds and a Kevlar carbon silencer.

Road homologation kits will also be available for the RSV 1000 and the RS 125 to convert them for road use at a later date.

The Aprilia stand will also be displaying the racing machines used to take three titles in the 2003 World Championships, the RS3, the RSW 250 and the RS GP 125.

The revolutionary SXV 4.5, the bike that Aprilia will be entering in the World Supermotard Championships next season will be taking part in the Superbikers International race on Monday 8th, ridden by Manuel Poggiali and Alex De Angelis. Both riders will be present at the Aprilia stand on Sunday 7th. Aprilia’s latest signing, Shane Byrne will be at the stand on Monday.
 

Jörgen Player Special

GRÖNT ÄR SKÖNT
Gick med
12 Nov 2003
Ort
Göteborg
Hoj
ZX10R
Torkel skrev:
Jag har då inte hört om något annat, se http://www.aprilia.com/portale/eng/mag_articolo.phtml?id=397


Also this year, Aprilia protagonist at the traditional kermesse in Bologna! And, for the 28th edition, Aprilia wants to show off its sporty gifts, choosing the Motor Show as an ideal window to present the racing versions of the world’s top three supersport motorcycles, the RSV 1000, RS 250 and RS 125.
We wait for you, to know together our new jewels! Appointment , where you’ll find also the whole Aprilia original merchandising!
Outside, in the race area, pay attention to the revolutionary SXV 4.5, the bike that Aprilia will be entering in the World Supermotard Championships next season and that aking part in the Superbikers International race on Monday 8th, ridden by Manuel Poggiali and Alex De Angelis.

With the models presented at the Motor Show, Aprilia reinforces its sensibilty towards the growing demand from motorcycle enthusiasts all over the world for dedicated race track machines for use in competition and practice. These bikes feature aviation fibre fairings, unrestricted exhausts, and come stripped of all unnecessary clutter like lights and horns. A “racing” colour scheme and graphics and a highly competitive price tag are common to all three models.

The RSV 1000 R Factory ‘Pista’ is equipped with 102 dB Aprilia Racing Titanium exhausts capable of giving the already high performance RSV yet another 10 HP in the mid-range and an extra 4 HP at maximum engine speed. An 8 kg weight reduction is the first of a series of benefits introduced on this bike to make track riding even more rewarding.

The RS 250 ‘Pista’ features lightweight Aprilia exhausts and Kevlar carbon silencers in homage to the RSW 250 that has dominated the World championships for so many years. Aprilia is delighted to dedicate this bike to Europe’s many fans of supersport 2-stroke racers and to the unbeatable thrills that these machines can deliver on any track.

The RS 125 ‘Pista’ is the perfect machine for all young riders seeking to make a name for themselves in the world of motorcycle racing. The undisputed queen of the European 125 Championship comes fitted with a specially made exhaust with external welds and a Kevlar carbon silencer.

Road homologation kits will also be available for the RSV 1000 and the RS 125 to convert them for road use at a later date.

The Aprilia stand will also be displaying the racing machines used to take three titles in the 2003 World Championships, the RS3, the RSW 250 and the RS GP 125.

The revolutionary SXV 4.5, the bike that Aprilia will be entering in the World Supermotard Championships next season will be taking part in the Superbikers International race on Monday 8th, ridden by Manuel Poggiali and Alex De Angelis. Both riders will be present at the Aprilia stand on Sunday 7th. Aprilia’s latest signing, Shane Byrne will be at the stand on Monday.


Vi måste köpa nya pipor till våra hojar kompis!!

/Jörgen
 

Axxexs

Ordinary man doing extraordinary things
Gick med
11 Dec 2003
Ort
Verkstan
Hoj
Technical Sports Racing AC28-M Prototype powered by Honda Racing Corporation
Jörgen Player Special skrev:
Vi måste köpa nya pipor till våra hojar kompis!!

/Jörgen


Finns nog en hel hög med pipor kanske!? Ingen av aprilias pista-modeller (125Pista, 250Pista, Mille Pista) kommer tillverkas pga dåligt intresse...
Piporna är säkert inte billiga heller? Kan nog hitta andra som är billigare? Typ Arrows mf. Tror inte att Pistamodellens avgasrör skulle platsa in i SP heller. Avgasrör måste vara E-märkta enligt reglementet. Men till b-race däremot e d fritt! =)
 

Jörgen Player Special

GRÖNT ÄR SKÖNT
Gick med
12 Nov 2003
Ort
Göteborg
Hoj
ZX10R
Axxexs skrev:
Finns nog en hel hög med pipor kanske!? Ingen av aprilias pista-modeller (125Pista, 250Pista, Mille Pista) kommer tillverkas pga dåligt intresse...
Piporna är säkert inte billiga heller? Kan nog hitta andra som är billigare? Typ Arrows mf. Tror inte att Pistamodellens avgasrör skulle platsa in i SP heller. Avgasrör måste vara E-märkta enligt reglementet. Men till b-race däremot e d fritt! =)

Har du kollat med Eva om det går att köpa "Pistans" pipor? E-märkta....vad är det för skit? =)


/Jörgen
 

Axxexs

Ordinary man doing extraordinary things
Gick med
11 Dec 2003
Ort
Verkstan
Hoj
Technical Sports Racing AC28-M Prototype powered by Honda Racing Corporation
Jörgen Player Special skrev:
Har du kollat med Eva om det går att köpa "Pistans" pipor? E-märkta....vad är det för skit? =)


/Jörgen


Nä, har inte kollat d.. Tror inte hon har dom med på sin prislista men hon kan nog be TMP kolla upp det!

TMP ska visst nu i denna månaden höjt sina priser en del oxå, skulle dessutom kunna tänka mig att dom piporna är billigare att köpa i Italien direkt. Ett Arrows får man ge nästan 8.000:- för här hemma medans det kostar ca 4.000:- i Italien.

"Pistans" pipor skulle väl Gianelli göra? Kanske är direkt till dem man ska vända sig!
 

Jörgen Player Special

GRÖNT ÄR SKÖNT
Gick med
12 Nov 2003
Ort
Göteborg
Hoj
ZX10R
Axxexs skrev:
Nä, har inte kollat d.. Tror inte hon har dom med på sin prislista men hon kan nog be TMP kolla upp det!

TMP ska visst nu i denna månaden höjt sina priser en del oxå, skulle dessutom kunna tänka mig att dom piporna är billigare att köpa i Italien direkt. Ett Arrows får man ge nästan 8.000:- för här hemma medans det kostar ca 4.000:- i Italien.

"Pistans" pipor skulle väl Gianelli göra? Kanske är direkt till dem man ska vända sig!


Kolla med Eva vad piporna kostar.. Jag har ju inte sett någon närbild på hojen, men det ser ut att vara samma som de vi har, men att de bytt ut aluminiumtermosarna mot kolfiber. Det borde vara Gianelli och det borde inte bli så dyrt om man bara behöver byta dämparen.

/Jörgen
 

abstruse

Trek Domane
Gick med
6 Mar 2003
Ort
Tidaholm
Hoj
Exhojar: ZXR750 '91, ZX-9R '99, ZX-6R '01
Jörgen Player Special skrev:
Allergisk mot tråkiga kommentarer.

Majoriteten av oss som käftar i tråden träffas IRL på tävlingar och vet var vi har varandra. Vi är goda vänner allihop och jargongen på forumet är och har alltid varit rå men hjärtlig. Att vi nyttjar ironi och sarkasm utan att mena något illa kanske kan vara svårt för en "utomstående" eller ny på forumet att förstå.

Dessbättre är inte VI allergiska mot nytillkomna som uttalar sig utan att veta vad som egentligen försigår. Som ny i en "grupp" brukar det löna sig att känna av läget före man ger sig i kast med att ge full hals.
 

sepahewe

För gammal för att slå Rossi
Gick med
6 Mar 2003
Ort
Stenungsund
Hoj
N/A :(
abstruse skrev:
Att vi nyttjar ironi och sarkasm utan att mena något illa

Ja se där... Lyssna nu pa apstrutsen innan han skapar bromsspar med bromsar han inte själv förstar. Fast det är ju klart, jag menar ju alltid illa :yoparty






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